Chris Van Hollen on Charlie Kirk, a government shutdown, and Zohran Mamdani.

Final week, Senate Minority Chief Chuck Schumer introduced that Democrats could be in search of a restoration in funding to Medicare and to increase Obamacare subsidies within the upcoming authorities funding invoice. If Republicans refuse to come back to the desk, Sen. Schumer says Democrats will withhold their votes, forcing a authorities shutdown on the finish of the month.Days earlier than Schumer’s announcement, conservative activist Charlie Kirk was shot and killed at an occasion in Utah. Within the aftermath, President Donald Trump and his allies laid blame on the ft of Democrats and the left. In a speech from the Oval Workplace on Thursday, Trump vowed that his administration would “discover each a type of who contributed to this atrocity and to different political violence, together with the organizations that fund it and assist it.” Some are arguing that within the midst of this heightened rhetoric, selecting a battle over the price range might give Trump license to additional his authoritarian goals. Sen. Chris Van Hollen of Maryland thinks it’s definitely worth the threat.In an interview with Right now, Defined, Van Hollen stated “there are all the time dangers, however once more, it’s Republicans and the Trump White Home that can be taking this threat, as a result of they’ll clearly be seen to be going it alone, attempting to primarily impose whole one-party rule on the nation.” Van Hollen believes that the Republicans have extra to lose by withholding concessions than the Democrats do by holding the road.Beneath is an excerpt of Van Hollen’s dialog with Right now, Defined host Noel King, edited for size and readability. There’s rather more within the full podcast, so hearken to Right now, Defined wherever you get podcasts, together with Apple Podcasts, Pandora, and Spotify.Schumer and minority chief Hakeem Jeffries have set their phrases for avoiding a authorities shutdown. They need Republicans to reverse Medicaid cuts and to increase the Obamacare subsidies. What’s your place on a shutdown?Effectively, firstly, we shouldn’t be giving President Trump a clean test to proceed his lawless actions, together with his unlawful withholding of funds from — for instance, NIH [the National Institutes of Health], the place individuals are present process medical trials for most cancers — and he’s withholding funds that might actually imply a demise sentence for them. And the GAO, the Authorities Accountability Workplace, has discovered that he’s illegally impounding, withholding these funds. And so, we are able to’t give them a clean test with out guardrails and safeguards to be sure that that received’t occur.What do guardrails and safeguards seem like? What particularly are you after right here?So, for instance, the Republicans within the Senate and the Home voted for this so-called rescission package deal, which means that they voted to undo sources, appropriations that they beforehand voted for. You may make that a lot tougher to do by requiring, for instance, a 60-vote margin to move it.You may as well do different issues, Noel. For instance, if the president have been to interact in an unlawful rescission, you might have an throughout the board rapid lower in White Home appropriations. So, there are issues you are able to do if Republicans have been keen to hitch us, however up to now, they’re not keen to tackle President Trump in any manner.The nation was in a really related place again in March of this 12 months. And the priority again then was that, if Democrats shut down the federal government, they’d find yourself taking the blame. They’d find yourself alienating voters. Is {that a} concern this time round?Effectively, this could be the Trump administration and Republicans within the Congress shutting down the federal government, as a result of they resolve to go it alone. They resolve to have a one-way road. They resolve to provide President Trump a clean test for his lawless exercise. And I don’t suppose the American individuals wish to see President Trump get a complete clean test, as a result of they’ve seen that he’s withholding monies from issues like FEMA and locations which were hit by disasters and refuse to offer funding for catastrophe reduction. He’s withholding funds from the Nationwide Institutes of Well being. In reality, by our calculation proper now, they’re withholding about $400 billion of funds for vital priorities for the present fiscal 12 months we’re in, which ends in just some weeks. So, in the event that they’re doing that now, he’ll do it once more until we cease it.Within the first half of the present, our colleague Andrew Prokop proposed this as one doable situation: An prolonged shutdown leads Republicans to consider that Democrats are abusing the filibuster, and they also finish the filibuster. And so, that implies that Republicans now not want any Democrats to vote with them, they usually can do no matter they need. He’s portray the shutdown as fairly a harmful chance for Democrats. What do you consider that?There are all the time dangers, however once more, it’s Republicans and the Trump White Home that can be taking this threat, as a result of they’ll clearly be seen to be going it alone, attempting to primarily impose whole one-party rule on the nation. Trump’s type of authoritarian impulses would don’t have any checks and no balances on them.With respect to Republicans eliminating the filibuster, I feel they acknowledge that extra democracy within the Senate and the Home doesn’t favor them in the long term. I imply, I’ve been an advocate for ending what’s known as the supermajority requirement to finish a filibuster; you’d nonetheless have ample debate for weeks or months, however on the finish of the day, you’d convey debate to an in depth with 51 votes. Republicans have been capable of do what they need with out doing that. So, for instance, they use the reconciliation course of to move huge tax cuts for the very wealthy and lower applications for working Individuals. We noticed them do that within the so-called “huge, stunning invoice,” which is gorgeous if you happen to’re a billionaire however stinks for everyone else. So, the massive issues Republicans love to do, like tax cuts, they get to do even with the filibuster in place. I don’t suppose the Republicans will go down that street, as a result of the supermajority requirement [that currently exists] to finish a filibuster favors their agenda, not the individuals’s agenda.After the conservative influencer Charlie Kirk was killed by a shooter final week, President Trump in a speech from the Oval Workplace blamed, quote, “the unconventional left.” He vowed to, quote, “discover each a type of who contributed to this atrocity and to different political violence, together with the organizations that fund it and assist it.” This strikes individuals as a probably very regarding risk to free speech, civil liberties. Have the occasions of the previous week modified your thoughts in any respect about the way you method the Trump administration? What do you suppose the president is saying right here?I’m very, very alarmed by what the president’s saying. There’s no room for political violence in our discourse. We will have strong debates with out it veering into violence, and there needs to be no vengeance. President Trump had an opportunity to convey the nation collectively to say that political violence is unacceptable no matter its supply, however as an alternative, he’s determined to interact in finger pointing. As an alternative, he’s weaponizing this terrible tragedy, this homicide, to advance his political objectives, which embrace going after what he calls people on the left, which, in Trump world, means anyone who disagrees with Donald Trump. So sure, it’s very regarding that he would threaten to make use of the complete energy and devices of the federal authorities to actually go after individuals who disagree with him.There’s a lot at stake for Democrats right here. As you’ve been saying, polling exhibits that Individuals are actually displeased with the social gathering and never simply most people. Democrats themselves aren’t proud of the social gathering. In August, an Related Press ballot of Democrats noticed individuals utilizing phrases like “weak,” “tepid,” “ineffective,” and “damaged” to explain their very own social gathering. What do you suppose is happening right here?Effectively, I don’t suppose the Democrats have achieved sufficient to face as much as Donald Trump’s lawlessness, nor do I feel Democrats have achieved sufficient to place ahead our personal constructive imaginative and prescient of what we’d do, together with taking up very highly effective particular pursuits and combating as an alternative for the frequent good and the general public curiosity.I used to be invited simply over the weekend to talk to the Polk County, Iowa, Democratic Celebration, and I laid out precisely that argument: that extra must be achieved to face as much as Donald Trump on this second. However clearly in 2024, the American individuals, the vast majority of the American individuals, didn’t belief us to tackle the established order and tackle these particular pursuits. And so, I consider we should be rather more clear not solely about what we’re combating towards, however what we’re combating for.At that occasion on Saturday, you additionally endorsed Zohran Mamdani. You criticized different Democratic leaders for delaying on endorsing him. You referred to one thing that you just known as “spineless politics.” What’s happening? What’s Mamdani doing that you just like?What I stated was, as we put together to attempt to win majorities within the Home and the Senate in 2026, we have to first win the 2025 races. Now we have huge races in Virginia and New Jersey for the governor seats, nice candidates, and we additionally have to win the mayoral race in New York Metropolis. I identified that Donald Trump has spent an enormous period of time and sources attempting to defeat Mamdani. Mamdani’s platform was individuals who work in New York ought to be capable of afford to reside in New York, which might be good for individuals in New York Metropolis; and Des Moines, Iowa; and in Maryland; and all through the nation. And but, you may have these very highly effective huge cash, particular pursuits — monetary pursuits combining with Donald Trump to attempt to defeat Mamdani. And so, I do suppose this can be a second the place Democrats want to face up for the one that is combating to cut back prices and be sure that individuals can afford to reside the place they work.